Father and Son forehead placement A  Scroll Bar  appears  here   on longer Articles

Acts 17 v 11

Copy Permit

Joining the Chain up

Joining the Chain up 5

A Look at Daniel

Stars of Daniel 12

Daniel simplified

The Rahab Effect

Joining the Chain up

Ships of Kittim

1335 Happy Ending

I will suggest that the actions of the prophecy are to mainly significant historical actions. Local events which may seem dramatic if near you in time or place might have to be dismissed.  Look therefore to the uniqueness of conditions, especially those which thereafter change things.  History tends to repeat itself in miniature and macro versions and powers ebb and flow.

Of most interest; the effect this has on the Kings of North and Kings of South, because individual elements of this are not unique, but the sequence must be true because God is true.  That being so, we must place the start and the end as instructed, then look to corroborate some portions by cross linkage; either to Scripture or history. [think: continuity, sequence, entitlement to N or S crown, magnitude.] Pray that as the End approaches the clarity on Prophecy will increase, this would be formally correct compare 2 Chronicles 6 v 36 to 39 with Daniel 9.  A clarity which all believers can share as if one, the word will prove true but believers must understand it to be true and why Genesis 18 v 17,18.

Daniel 2 v 32a….7 v 4….

Daniel 2 v 32b….7 v 5….8 v 4….70wks

Daniel 2 v 32c….7 v 6….8 v 5…..  I        …..  N&S

Daniel 2 v 33a….7 v 7….  I     …..  O      …..  N&S

Daniel 2 v 33b….7 v 8….  I                     ….. .N&S

                                       2300                   1290/1335

N&S=Kings of North and South, each start from portions of Greek Empire and last to the End times, therefore it must be paced out over time 2,300 years [Nostradamus -but a boy!].  It is the pace of fulfilment which needs regular review, we see history as past & then our focus improves.  As believers there is a propensity to End Time close it too soon, we only live a short time to a personal end time, I suggest we are around about Daniel 11 v 42 [May 2012] but we must pay continual attention!


 Up to now the study has been on general points where everyone would probably agree and this text be equally of use, but as we link Scripture to History opinions [on history and on Scripture] will rightly vary you should enter Beroean mode, henceforth. As history is made everyday, tomorrow we have more to go on. Daniel is probably not a doctrinal issue in itself, but will call very close to doctrine at times and may affect how you interpret it. You can of course try as many history scenarios as you please, I think I suggest the prime candidate, but don’t let that stop you! However you take this; proceed on to learn the method.


11 v 3 Alexander of Macedon aka Alexander the Great [copper belly,thigh:Leopard 4 wings/heads:he goat]

11 v 5 Egypt World power, King of South, the Ptolemy Daniel 8 v 12,  start: 2300 Note 4

11 v 6 - The affairs concerning Berenice.  As far as I know almost all attempts to explain N&S agree here, but split off too soon for end times.   Try searching: Berenice + Ptolemy II for history, add daniel to search for N&S applications.

11 v 17 Last Ptolemy Cleopatra falls to Rome (Rome now King of South and North [Iron legs: Crusher beast])

11 v 20 Emperor  Augustus roman registration, Jesus born in Bethlehem; Luke 2 v 1-6.

11 v 22 Jesus Dies Daniel 9 v 26 [on your diagram swing the chain in & clip to nose of fish]

11 v 23 Praetorian guard in Rome

11 v 25/26 Emperor  Aurelian

11 v 27 Egypt & Rome parts of same ‘kingdom’. In time the Senior and only Roman Emperor at Constantinople till 1453 (Christopher Columbus was a toddler of 2yrs as Rome finally fell). Of interest post Eastern Roman empires fall; search terms: "Ivan III ","niece of Constantine XI","third rome","Vladimir I","Muscovy","two-headed eagle","tsar". Interesting but I digress.

11 v 28 Emperor  Heraclius  610 to 641 AD.

11 v 29 Emperor  Constans finally looses  Egypt to Caliph Uthman. Caliphate now King of South.

Ships of Kittim

11 v 30 Ships of Kittim ‘Battle of Masts’  655ce.  There are many interpretations of “ships of Kittim” out there, however its not just an individual event for a verse you must find but a sequence of verses linked to a sequence of events, in a chain from Greece into the End times. Otherwise you can end up anywhere in time, ships of Kittim still operate.  Note 3

11 v 31a  Arms? =I suggest: Greek fire?

11 v 31b Third Council of Constantinople….[680-681ce]. Start 1290? & 1335? With the signing of the documents at the third council of Constantinople, the Roman Church had its doctrine legally authorised the apostate Dogma now has power, State backed. Anybody who thought differently could die. [swing chain into History column and note down the dates].  

It had to be a Dogma  because since Nicaea/Nicea ever more crazy ideas tried to make sense of it!  God had made a unitarian image in Man Himself -billions on the Planet all unique single selfs.  Even Emperor Constantine was baptised [J.I.T.] by a bishop with an Arian sympathy: Bishop Eusebius of Nicomedia.  Emperors wouldn’t pick the wrong side for themselves now would they? Interesting but I digress, again.

11 v 32-35 The horrific Middle Ages religious wars and persecutions. The Lawlessness/Apostasy which was “already at work” fully arrives in place as a fixture [it still is], though not exposed as such at this time 2 Thessalonians 2 v 7, 2 v 3-11 context. Note1

11 v 36-39 A great military Atheist king in North

11 v 40 The “cold war”?

11 v 41-45 Overlaps Ezekiel 38 & 39, gives some details not in Ezekiel.

Note 1 Now the Popes are not just doing horrible things to each other, they suppress everyone.  Read the history and Papal shenanigans show them worthy heirs of the Caesars. Rome’s Church orthodox dogma rules over the Middle ages mind-set, persecution of any type of unitarian thought; Heretic, Jews, Islam by Crusades, thinking for oneself, Bibles and the printers of them burnt by Bishops.  In time resistance to Roman thought control increases in the; Germanic states then in England.  Bible Publication adds some motivation to literacy among a few other factors.  The raised knowledge of Bible teaching improves people’s behaviour and eventually states take on a simple somewhat Christian tenor in time superstition a Pagan hangover also fades.  Some scripturally motivated  people do bring reforms to improve their fellowman’s lot.  But its not enough to wash away the past, Christendom had been brought forever into a state of disrepute by Church actions in history. This reign of religious terror weakens and gradually fades out around the late middle Twentieth Century.  The Churches's fall from public respect has been replaced in a post Christian age by a moral vacuum,  as the god ‘Me’ only has rules of present fancy, when consequences arrive they blame the Christian God its never Me.

-“Michael Servetus” (not always the Roman Church!)

-”William Tyndale”

-”Humanae Vitae” disregarded by many Catholics, a loss of authority?

N.B. It is often  said it was the 19“sixties”, however the changes really happened in the following decade.

Note 2 The great tree is taken just as narrative by many, but taken as a prophetic tableaux by others.  Consider Jesus gives a little acknowledgement that not every believer in him picks up on all the prophetic clues  Matthew 17 v 10-13 and sometimes its only later its realised John 12 v 16.  

Why look here –compare Luke 21 v 24  with Daniel 9 v 26 & 27 which seems to create a question. So how long is it & where do you look? Nebuchadnezzar’s conquest of Jerusalem; began the time gentiles ruled the Kingdom of Judah. As this is the other way round to scientific logic, I think this is an uncomfortable logic, called deductive logic the sort the police can solve crimes with.

Seven years of lunar years 360 days x 7=2520 years from Jerusalem’s fall.

Obscure yes, full of problems yes, but recently I heard Derek Walker of Oxford Bible Church on Revelation tv*.  Don’t count years of Jesus’ sojourn in the Gentile times/Times of Nations 2520+34=2554.

Up to you how you take it: http://www.oxfordbiblechurch.co.uk/pages/books/the-seven-times-of-the-gentiles.php*

*I have used these as an information source, thanks, there is no endorsement either way other than that fact.  Web courtesy to link to sources.

Consider; Matthew 26 v 53 & 27 v 11; to justify?, If you wish to add; your diagram will now be 7 columns a new first column, banded stump towards top of column or even just above head of gold, column blank ex for gentiles times number vertically and near bottom, that is near - not at; a stump bands broken and a green sprout. At level of fish symbol write “Pause 34” with a line above and below.  At level of sprout in new column 7: Daniel 12 v 1, Revelation 19 v 11, Isaiah 11 v 1, & others.

Note 3, Have you ever bought a kit and suffered the frustration of trying to understand the brief instructions?  One thing to note is that we can assume, if we have the right contents in the box; it will fit together some way.  I was puzzled greatly by the 2300:1290:1335.  But as the words are those of God I know they will make sense some way, just like a kit [deductive logic again].  So we try things to observe if they fit in place.  As the longer number starts first; does it end at the same time as one of the shorter numbers?

Then I realized the 2300 [note 4] start in Greek times B.C. & the 1290:1335 are Roman A.D starters. Then I tried a jump; 2300-1335=965 taking this course one assumes we are talking day for a year! The time to start the 2300, Recognition of Alexander by the Jews presented no problem (they had Daniel), some joined the Greek army and learned men went to Alexandria for the Septuagint project. I suggest this semi-willing exodus was the removal of ‘constant feature’ in Daniel 8 v 11-14. Compare 8 v 11-14 with 11 v 31 does it seem to you that 11 v 31 suggests a more forceful & polluting act than 8 v 11-14.  Alexandria became a rival in some ways for Jewish intellectual attention.  Ptolemy  Philadelphus  king; 283 BCE [start 2300 on his ascent to throne, but cannot be later than appearance of Greek Septuagint Bible?] to 246; So 965-283=682 then Googled 682 & thereabouts for “ships” +  “Cyprus” and after a while found the ‘Ships of Kittim’ candidate. Not entirely happy with this because I would like a day to a same day in another year, but I have not found anything more date wise on when this small exodus took place?  Perhaps it will be found.

The “constant feature” or “daily sacrifice”, most believers pray at least daily, but with omissions- a disruption in behaviour or feeling of unworthiness, or just a crisis situation family or greater which distracts, which may be ‘par for the course’ and habits are quickly restored; point being these things can occur more than once, even for the individual. Compare: Revelation 4 v 8 to 11.  I will suggest that in the case of these prophetic uses it may mean a situation where things were done without consulting God’s given directions.

Note 4 Ptolemy Philadelphus and starting the 2300 years.  Ptolemy Philadelphus (II) greatly supported the Library at Alexandria and some things father Ptolemy Soter (I) may have started and may have continued with during co-regency with his son.  The Library is lost but the Greek Septuagint survived and became a popular version.  Therefore for want of a better time location, I suggest [for the present] we take Philadelphus’(II) crowning as beginning the 2300.  It would actually be when the Jewish Scriptural intellect left for Egypt when 2300 started.


Little Horn;

USA in Bible prophecy?

Daniel 7 v 8, 11, 20, 21: I will suggest this is and what I shall call it is the “English Power Accretion”.  Starts off as a small western remnant of the Western Roman Empire not long after Eastern Roman Empire ends, defeats other Nations nominally greater in size and grows into the greatest Empire the World had seen. A colony to the west separates but remained united, it is a crack though not a break in the Horn. Note that by the end of verse 20 the ‘little horn’ had grown, just as the younger party of the ‘Special relationship” is far greater today than little ole’ England. Note “Great Britain” is not an empire name but a political union of several indigenous nations [>5] of the British Isles geography under the same Crown, when Southern Ireland now Eire left the union it became called the “United Kingdom”.  Whilst a people ruled by Rome it was a bit of an upstart, originally conquered for mineral wealth & grain  but also because it was aiding rebels in Gaul (now France).  Later it spent time as a rebel colony [Carausius] and later still a legal Emperor was crowned at York.  Of course Yahweh saw it coming, I’ll just guess at how; Yahweh knows how mankind works because he made them add this to knowing the land resources; excellent Oak growing country plus Iron and coal deposits close together.  Now look at Europe can you imagine a vague likeness to Rhinoceros head looking west, can you see a little horn?

How can we see Rome, Britain & USA as the same one great fourth Beast of Daniel?

Observe a visit by British Monarchy to the USA or how on many occasions these have fought hard together and maybe the division between Britain and the USA is only a division between iron and clay or one foot and another?

In their time each is a European [Japhetic] commercial empire, the ‘conquered’ are not simply subjugated but are urged to join in and be part of the Empire and in most cases persons/nations find this worthwhile [as did the apostle Paul].  The monetary system holds the real power and motivation.  [Look up what forum actually means.]  Rome is the beast with ten horns, Britain the small horn which casts down three others, USA the same horn later on; no longer so little- Daniel 7 v 20.  Note the USA is mainly of European heritage and ethnicity.  You could say Japheth = Western World, consider Genesis 9 v 27 with USA in mind.

For those a little more into their history study, if we compare Rome with London does Washington, D.C. fit like Constantinople in empire terms?

See also Copy Permissions

Caution #1; The Ransom provision for salvation of repentant persons is the personal priority issue, understanding prophecy only explains what is going on.  Yahweh is in control!  [So .... while you study shipping times don’t miss your boat!]  

Caution #2;  I do feel I must warn all readers to take strict care; especially with dates. The record of interpretation of dates is not good at all.  It is tempting to pin [all] your hopes on flimsy reasoning, then teach your fancy. Misinterpretation may not be quite the same as deceiving by false prophecy, and thus you might be forgiven [foolish rather than evil.]. Nevertheless it will rightly damage your trustworthiness as a teacher, this will be deserved and you will have to live with it, because you may well have done damage to those with weaker faith. Of course you will not be the first to assume too much John 21 v 21,22,23. Be careful! We should remember our place and what that place is.  It is about God’s Glory never ours, where were we 2,300 years ago?

Caution #3; You may not agree, fine at first. I hope my  readers start from a cautious healthy sceptic ism and apply the Beroean example.  Of course you may know of another qualifying sequence?  I could not find one that met all criteria, but if you reject this then it is your duty to find it.  The Internet does make it easier nowadays though.  By using a sequence of verses the uniqueness of a match becomes more certain.

More on 2300:1290:1335

We are directed as to when we start the counts but little information on what to expect. [1290 nothing*]

*1290 from third council of Constantinople; it does however end in the middle of an unprecedented time of great social and attitude change.  Try 10 year +/-.

2300 appears to be a sort of quality restoration of the Temple but as Daniel tells us some Temple services are ended by the Messiah we must expect some modification from direct Mosaic Law Daniel 9 v 27, but the Yahweh to worshippers link will be restored to at least former quality.  This may require some merging of Jews and Christians.  The Temple from Heaven Revelation 21 may still be future at this point? It could be the time for Israel’s reconciliation to be fulfilled; Romans 11 & Ezekiel 39 v 7 v 21-29 along with 2 Chronicles 6 v 32,33.  Whether you suppose literal or symbolic the “constant feature” or a significant similar condition returns to Jerusalem.

1290 no guidance, but may be a precursor to 1335.  I can only think this device in numbers is to mark the beginning of a period of changes/developments which lead to complete on the second number.  Something where a period of time is required rather than mark an event to a calendar day.  To be modern in this; we could give the dates in computer history as time points, but if we said ‘the populace will use computers’ that would be a period of time from about 1980 to today and it is still increasing, so there is no dot in time.  Quite a number of development times do occur, in England the time to build the Roman road network and the later Rail network all about a similar timescale!  Stay awake on this, just in case I have missed something.

1335 Happy Ending could be because of the 2300 ending see above[?], could link with Revelation 1 v 3 &/or Matthew 5.  Besides the many possible choices you may make here, check the following, then lay out your considerations in a similar manner.

Happy: Daniel 12 v 12 - Revelation 18 v 20 (also Blessed)

Blood : Daniel 11 v 33 - Revelation 18 v 24

Mislead : Daniel 11 v 32 - Revelation 18 v 23b

Look for other candidates to match the following sequence

Emperor Heraclius  . N successful against S                  11 v 28    610 to 641 AD

Battle of Masts           S uses ships of Kittim against N 11 v 30    655ce

Greek Fire                  N arms against S                           11 v 31a       

Third Council of Constantinople  N turns to install       11 v 31b    680-681ce.

Middles Ages burnings An Apostasy in N                       11 v 32-35  

Marxism etc,  N atheist king

Making sense by assuming numbers end together?

l……………..2300……………………………………….l   if

l…965…..l…………..1335……………………………..l   end

l…965…..l…..………………1290………………l..45.l   together

Cf1          cf2   constant feature 1st & 2nd

Let us Assume.

-This is an assumption!

--it seems to work

---Remember it is an assumption

----Just in case we have to go back

-----Forgetting assumptions is burning the bridge behind your advance.

Enjoy your study ………

As its for the “Time of the End”, don’t consider yet that this is completed.  Take note if more information appears on the history, Bible, or World scene and if it seems appropriate modify for increased understanding.  Consider this as just bringing you up to speed.

What we don’t understand today, maybe we will tomorrow!  

I think next will be more on Revelation, but not sure at present will announce on blog whatever I start.


Late Note;

[8/6/2012. Since publishing the above] A further thought for your consideration:

Is it a marker/event or a condition beginning?  If we consider the removal of ‘constant feature’ or ‘daily sacrifice’ as an event marking a perennial condition that then continues for the time period given [onset to ending]?  Then we must also note the differing terms of the two cf1 is literal/natural Israel  or Jewish cf2 is Jewish & Gentile Christian.  Everyone who studies Scripture understands why the Jews have had reproaches but why the Christians also?  Consider Luke 22 v 28  to 34 note especially v31 and small wonder if  29,30 are considered [compare Daniel 11 v esp 35 of 32-35 with Luke 22 v 32] For the end of the period Ephesians 1 v 10.

Revelation 6 v 9-11, 20 v 4  indeed it has been just so.