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Acts 17 v 11

In process of re-write to improve organisation of article: next few weeks.

What is God, Who is Christ, What is Holy Spirit?

Once we throw out the Roman Empire’s [325-681 CE.] trinity implant into Christendom or have converted from a ‘pagan’ religion where the triple god/goddess is worshiped, some redefinition of identity may help.

{ Incidentally Trinity possibly the longest lasting Roman artefact still functioning to purpose, ok; along with a few Aqueducts.}

This is another feeble [but much simpler than trinitarian concepts] attempt for a Human mind to grasp these ideas, where answers have seldom satisfied.  Because we cannot validate by our normal see it & touch it, methods, most of the answers being outside our senses.  Therefore we must approach this knowing this limitation.  We progress using Scripture and some Logic, from the Angel’s point of view perhaps the best we can hope for is to be the Blind man confidently crossing town with his stick!  What a defeatist statement to put at the front of an article, but remember, even if this works for you as the clearest you have read, the clarity is limited to the above proviso.

Let’s start at the beginning, but which? The Scriptural one only describes the material Universe/Cosmos beginning; the Beginning of the Spirit world where God and his angels reside is not given to us, too many explanations forget this!

The only Beginning we can access is Eden, all uses of Beginning in Scripture must be defined by Eden or the surrounding Creation project by God.

In an effort to formulate explanations many have missed a qualifying point, Scripture is explaining relative to our Earth, beware of Universalising the meaning of a verse just on the basis it is the Inspired word, when in fact we have missed this context.   We are approximating what these things are [ 1Corinthians 13 v 12].

There is a possible omitted storyline which can be extrapolated by other Scripture, When did the called council occur after Man’s sin?

Compare: Job 1 v 6, 2 v 1 & 1Kings 22 v 1 -38. [if you don’t know these verses you must read them!]

Let us use our imagination wherein we can create the scenario and try the issues.

God is committed to execution of the sinners by his word, Are all the Angels about to say nothing and just acquiesce? Are we to think only Lucifer was bold in his expressions.  Some other angels had been working hard on this project too.

There is an issue at this crisis point, the power of reproduction had been already given and the [God] promised as yet unborn had not rebelled.

There fore God is judicially committed to execute the parents but has promised the unborn life?

Mischief has been  afoot.

This might explain why Lucifer had chosen that time to strike at the neck of Human genealogy, creating an impasse situation to embarrass God’s position of authority.

God as creator of All, had so far dictated how things would go.  This was an attempted seizure.  Not of the power that would be ridiculous, but perhaps the Dignity in controlling said power.

If the Law of God’s word went directly ahead, it could be seen as ‘unjust though lawful’ to the potential life created already inside those who had now sinned.  So the potential for Life could be considered in this sense as if a Life in itself, even more so as straight forward justice would cause an extinction event and thus also void the work of God in Creation and those angelic helper’s work also, destroying Earth’s Caretaker provision entirely.

This would bring God’s work and command to fill the Earth to failure through no fault in his work.

Something had to be done….

We are not told if God had executed before, maybe all the Angels had passed a test maybe not, but resentment and pride had grown in one at least.  Some angels may have viewed humanity as the new kid getting all the attention or some similar envious reaction; Revelation 12 v 9 Satan is not alone.

These issues may have surfaced very quickly as Lucifer/Satan had been placed as covering Cherub in Eden.

Having got thus far; what is God: Backtrack on the Bible’s story; we are Men or Women which are a division of God’s image, angels as far as we know are not a division, so imagine a mind with male and female qualities united, a sort of mind which can handle abstract thoughts in fact several all at the same time! Then leave the Human realm as God is a spirit this bit we have to imagine.  The seniority of God being creator of all things means an intimate knowledge of the whole of all creation in all the dimensions it may exist, along with all the history, being alone without genesis beginning.  Thus you may be able to imagine what God is, in some ways not that different, In others many magnitudes of difference!  Scriptures refer to God  as a singular person with a Name, but also as spirit or a spirit; the first is personal the second may be taken as generic or nature.  This person is the primary Creator of All things spirit and material.  The “Spirit of God” appears as a way in which he extends his power/influence away from his location in person.  Our word “inspiration” renders this idea.

Due weight must be given to God styling himself as a father and Angels and Mankind being made in his image.  To create a sentient life-form in one’s own image must be a fatherly act?

What to do??  

The sin however was real enough and could not be undone.  Humanity owed God [as the justice] two lives there and then.

It would seem Yahweh is determined his Universe will practice righteousness throughout.

An easy way out is not to be taken.

If we consider that the pre-human Jesus was of the angelic Creation, then he would by this be God’s son; since they all are. Job 1 v 6 in some Bibles check footnote.  Though not one of the other angels has been begotten as human, whilst only one other human [Adam] has as yet ever had a full son’s relationship with God, but lost it.

It seems there is a baggage inheritance from trinity belief; because Christians dispute this among themselves since introduction into the 300 year old Church; that in this debate causes even Arian type believers to view Christ’s position as very high, though not as an equal to God.

This is an unnecessary assumption; The What/Who is Christ/Jesus probably volunteered to do the job: John 10 v 18, contrast this with John 5 v 19. It makes sense of the seeming contradiction with 10 v 18 as the original volunteer offer being accepted then carried out exactly as Yahweh directed.  Note: It was a suicide mission which he received permission to go ahead with.

Why did the victim of the ransom have to be a human male? 1. Because it was Adam’s sin which had to be paid 2. Paid by a member of the human race for fellow humanity.

I will venture but have no means of knowing; that it was after this that an angel possibly of lower rank than Lucifer may have been bestowed the name “the Word”.  

The volunteer did not posses a human body so..., Hebrews 10 v 5.

The Christ may not have been in his creation an Angel of such great rank as many Arian type believers suppose, but became such as a matter of commitment to being the volunteer agent of saving the human creation And God giving the ‘tools to do the job’.  From his origins he is then exalted, an equal of God or near equal could not be exalted.  Exalted tends to imply a great move in position so the previous position was the reverse of the exaltation?

What is Genesis suggesting to us in the highlighting of  Isaac, Jacob, Joseph? Messianic type stories all [God exalted?] younger brothers.

Look again at the honours of Christ in Revelation, because...you.... Can you find any statement like “you the first born take up your rights as first born?

We perhaps should imagine an angel, who did his job to the best of his ability and who was more committed and interested at heart to God’s creation process than he was ambitious.  Alarmed at what the Eden sin might cause, he may have become more outspoken in Council. What is Genesis telling us? Compare Genesis 41 v 38.

And God concluded that’s the one.

It is when we remove the logic burden caused by the trinity dogma in this manner, that what the Holy Spirit actually is; becomes clearer.

Some other questions can be raised in Council;

Does God have a sense of duty or/or affection for the potential offspring trapped in this scenario? [as we are in his image then our basic inborn emotional pattern should be based on his??] If you have not noticed before this is a Hostage situation; unborn within the due to be executed today.

Does the willing victim have what it takes to carry out all duties which may fall to him?

How to protect the trapped offspring from immediate sentence of death in 24 hours, a statement the Almighty is duty bound to keep.

-You might be able to think of more?

Remember Abraham’s plea over Sodom Genesis 18 v 23 onwards, more in Ezekiel 18.

Just as we have found in human affairs, it becomes imprudent to continue on as things are, temporary setups are required, though in this case thousands of our years will pass until 1 Corinthians 14 v 28.  We must remember too that there is a Rebel in Heaven, and those issues to deal with -the issues we see are only part of the problem.  We might also consider extenuating circumstances here in that there is a case of outside interference to the situation.

You will have heard in some translations the word Agent used in regard to the Christ.

A “middleman” or an Agent is required.

The willing victim being the sin intercessor is clearly the one fitted for this.

There is now a technical destruction of the Heavens and Earth, being subjected to futility [but with hope] Romans 8 v 20.

That is Yahweh’s faultless Creation under His direct supervision Ends; or it is put under a new management team of 2.

The temporary Heavens and Earth that now exist are ‘created’ by the agreement of Yahweh with the victim/Christ.  This unhappy failing creation has though Hope.  This means an intercession period where an agent can handle some matters then a return back.  Armageddon could be seen as as the 24 hour Law returning.

These too will end and Revelation 21 v 1-5.

So what is the “Holy Spirit”?  It is a Power projection from Yahweh himself to work within Christ’s agency, Christ has a relationship with Yahweh we mankind don’t. Yahweh is doing things on Christ’s behalf -not our’s directly.  Hence Yahweh can via Christ ‘asking’ do things for us.  Anything which may be outside the person of Christ’s own ability can be carried out by God’s ability. [which in all cases is enough.] We can answer this fairly simply, at first in Genesis God’s Spirit is above the waters, if we take this as saying his Spirit can effect things beyond His actual presence, its easy to see this modified to back the Messianic project. Perhaps Yahweh all along has projected his power when the situation required, be it Creation or Joshua requesting sunlight, miracles, inspiration, or Samson’s strength.  Balance the logic of these two verses Isaiah 43 v 11 with 2Corinthians 1 v 20.

The big giveaway has been its often called “Holy Spirit” -who is Holy and also a spirit.

The Person of Yahweh; expels the sinners from Eden by the sword they are dead from his standpoint [as are we] and death rules us all for the present with all its pains that blow did happen in the day man sinned and was expelled from Eden.

It still hurts today when we die it is that expulsion from Eden, there was no exemption from punishment.

2Corinthians 1 v 20

Remember we cannot see God, but I hope this helps you “get your head around the subject” and no more than that; to proceed on in your study.

ps: God’s spirit is not given his name, perhaps this is because he/it is functioning as an interaction with Christ or others.  Consider although it was Yahweh that pushed the temple down, it was his servant Samson’s wish to do so.

God would not be the only father to say my child did this........... When we all know dad helped quite extensively!

For your consideration,

talk among yourselves awhile.

Take a little time over this, as you study Scripture just see what fits with a Bible wide view.  To suggest Jesus as being one son of God among many such and that he came forward from a lesser position to our aid, does not reduce his now higher status as told to us in Revelation.  What we are seeking is not exact, because the exact situation we cannot see/touch anyway; a sensible approximation is all we can hope for.  Do not seek to explain things we cannot possibly know, like some foolish ideas in the Middle Ages. Consider that any in the Image of God who are without sin, thus having a full relationship with God, are therefore ‘sons of God’.  Regular readers of this site will know some matters are dealt with in more detail elsewhere.

Not to be confused with the Osiran Trinity Son of god where the Son is the father.

Who, what is God,

Who, what is Christ,

What actually is Holy Spirit?